Mark P. of Proud Atheist provided a list of what atheist believe. ”The list can be read here. Mark asks his readers, “What would you add?”
How about these:
Atheists believe it is okay to seize snippets of our sacred book and use them to smear God and His people without any regard for context. Why not at least examine the context first?
Atheists believe in love so long as it doesn’t involve people of faith. At least that has been my experience.
Atheists believe in kindness so long as it is not directed towards people of faith. A quick visit to Proud Atheist will attest to that.
Atheists believe in family unless you are of the family of God.
Atheists believe (or at least some do) that people of faith are fair game for ridicule and scorn.
Atheists believe in a woman’s right to choose the fate of her unborn child.
Atheists believe unborn children have no rights.
Atheists believe that creationism is a fairytale.
Atheists believe in the fairytale of evolution.
Atheists believe that faith in God is silly.
Atheists believe our ancestors were monkeys.
Atheists believe there is no evidence for God.
Atheists believe the non-evidence of a missing link. Atheists do have faith after all!
Atheists believe a person is hateful if they do not support the homosexual lifestyle. I would like to think this is not true of all atheists.
Atheists believe that it is natural for a person to be bisexual.
Atheists believe they will never bow their knee to the God of the universe. I believe they are wrong.
And more importantly, atheists still have time to reconsider the damage they are doing to others who might actually be interested in honestly examining the Christian faith and exploring the depth of God’s love!
Atheists should either learn what Christianity is or leave it alone.
Disclaimer: This list is compiled from my own experience with atheists and does not necessarily represent the beliefs of all atheists on every point.
June 30, 2009 at 1:21 am |
Nice, let me help you out.
“Atheists believe it is okay to seize snippets of our sacred book and use them to smear God and His people without any regard for context. Why not at least examine the context first?”
-Just like Christians do when they trying to prove how great their religion is, but they ignore all of those nasty unpleasant parts that no one wants to think about.
Atheists believe in love so long as it doesn’t involve people of faith. At least that has been my experience.
-Love and hate; I do anyway.
Atheists believe in kindness so long as it is not directed towards people of faith. A quick visit to Proud Atheist will attest to that.
-You’re showing kindness in a funny way. Throwing stones and living in glass houses aren’t we?
Atheists believe in family unless you are of the family of God.
-Your “family of God” does a lot of fighting and killing of its family members.
Atheists believe (or at least some do) that people of faith are fair game for ridicule and scorn.
-Yeah, but not all of us. Some just want everyone to get along.
Atheists believe in a woman’s right to choose the fate of her unborn child.
-Yep, I think most do but not all.
Atheists believe unborn children have no rights.
-little to none, for me but I think that’s highly arguable for most atheists.
Atheists believe that creationism is a fairytale.
-It is
Atheists believe in the fairytale of evolution.
-No, we believe in the scientific method which at this time supports the theory of evolution and no evidence has been presented or discovered to negate that support.
Atheists believe that faith in God is silly.
-True
Atheists believe our ancestors were monkeys.
-Oversimplification, but yeah.
Atheists believe there is no evidence for God.
-There isn’t
Atheists believe the non-evidence of a missing link. Atheists do have faith after all!
-What are you talking about? There’s something missing which would link the past to the present; what else would you call it but a “missing link”?
Atheists believe a person is hateful if they do not support the homosexual lifestyle. I would like to think this is not true of all atheists.
-Its not true of all atheists. But, by definition that makes you prejudice, and if you think they shouldn’t have the same rights then you’re a bigot.
Atheists believe that it is natural for a person to be bisexual.
-I don’t think that’s accurate. I think most would define it in different ways. I’m atheist, and my point is that I don’t care what consenting adults do in their bedroom no matter what it is because they’re doing it in their bedroom.
Atheists believe they will never bow their knee to the God of the universe. I believe they are wrong.
-OK, now we’re kind of back to ground zero; atheists don’t believe in god/gods.
And more importantly, atheists still have time to reconsider the damage they are doing to others who might actually be interested in honestly examining the Christian faith and exploring the depth of God’s love!
-Or hate, or exclusion, or disinformation, or many things of your god.
Atheists should either learn what Christianity is or leave it alone.
-I think most would be happy to do so once Christians left everyone else alone. i.e. stop trying to control other people’s lives based on your faith.
I hope that helps a little. You seemed a little confused.
June 30, 2009 at 3:35 pm |
May I address a common misnomer? Equal rights.
All people (in America) have equal rights, as it pertains to marriage. I have a right to marry the opposite sex. I do not have the right to marry another man.
Let’s not use lies to debate the validity of opinion or “belief”.
June 30, 2009 at 8:00 am |
I’m wondering how many atheists you know…like personally… in your life, have you known?
I’m sure I could write just as nasty of a list about MANY “Christians” I know/have known… and not, “so-called” Christians…but, Christians.
I have a much simpler list of what I believe and it’s a far cry from anything you wrote. If you’re interested it’s at:
http://savemenot.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/something-to-believe/
June 30, 2009 at 8:53 am |
Samanthamj,
Two questions: 1) What is nasty or untrue about the list? 2) How do you know what a “real” Christian is?
June 30, 2009 at 9:44 am |
Brian,
Did you read this list? It was rude,judemental, condescending, and grossly incorrect. You think I don’t have any family values because I’m not a Christian? You think I can’t “love” anyone unless “it doesn’t involve people of faith.”? Hmmm.. I guess I don’t love most of my family and friends then, huh?
You did get a couple right… like, “Atheists believe there is no evidence for God.” Right. Obviously, if I believed there WAS real evidence, I wouldn’t BE a “non-believer”.
And, I say, “real Christian” because every time a “Christian” does something “wrong” (aka: something other Christians don’t agree with), the other Christians will say, “he/she wasn’t a REAL Christian”.
Like I said, how many atheists do you actually KNOW? Not debate with on blogs, but KNOW in real life? I only know of a couple… but, I knew them well. I also have known plenty of Christians, “real” Christians, and still do… not to mention, I was one (which I’m sure you won’t believe, but’s c’est la vie!).
June 30, 2009 at 1:25 pm |
I don’t think it is rude to be honest. Some of the things on my list are directed at those who participate in the relentless Christian bashing on the Proud Atheist blog. The disclaimer is there to show others that I do not apply everything on my list to all atheists. However, I agree with you that the “kindness” thing is a bit too broad. I hope you understand that it is a reaction to what I experienced recently on the Proud Atheist Blog.
I did not accuse atheists of having no family values. I said atheists believe in family unless you are of the family of God. That means atheists do not believe in the family of God. Is that not true?
I don’t know why atheists say there is no evidence for God. There is evidence on both sides of the debate. To dismiss the evidence that supports what you do not believe is irrational. I guess that is the difference between atheists and agnostics.
A true Christian is one who faithfully follows Christ. When a person, who claims to be a Christian, embraces and accepts that which is contrary to the doctrines delivered by the apostles, it cannot be said that they follow after Christ.
I don’t think you can become an atheist after being born-again of the Holy Spirit. You could turn away from the faith, but you could not deny the existence of God. So I do not think you know what it means to be a true Christian.
June 30, 2009 at 2:58 pm
*sigh* Well, there you go… Of course, I was never a “true” Christian. As if I didn’t know THAT was coming? I suppose, neither were the pastors and preachers who tell their stories of how they lost their faith over on the de-conversion blog? We all just “thought” we were saved? Whatever. You can believe what you want to. I wonder, though, is that what it takes for you to reconcile in your own head why you get to go to heaven, and I should rot in hell? Not just me and you… but, the millions of other atheists. agnostics, or people who are just not the “right” Christians, or involved in the “right” religions? If yes, I’m glad you can find a way to deal with and accept that concept. I tried to believe that one myself, but, it was one I never could quite grasp. Thank God. Or, well.. thank heavens… or… whatever… you know what I mean. ;)
If you’re interested, I did mention how I couldn’t “get” this in an OLD post of mine at:
http://savemenot.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/greatest-love-story-of-all-time/
Peace out.
June 30, 2009 at 11:04 am |
GA has already given a good account of himself, but I want a stab at it too. Then I will add some things to the list that are conspicuously missing.
Atheists believe it is okay to seize snippets of our sacred book and use them to smear God and His people without any regard for context. Why not at least examine the context first?
Wow. Pot calling kettle black. Quote mining is one of the most common tactics of the evolution denier. As per this discussion, though, most atheists have a far greater knowledge not only of the context but the history of the Bible. Indeed, most atheists were once Christians themselves. (I admit I am not one of those, but my library on The Bible is quite impressive, so I am indeed well-read on the subject.)
Atheists believe in love so long as it doesn’t involve people of faith. At least that has been my experience.
I agree with samanthamj on this one. This is pure bigoted B.S. I have known and loved Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Jews. Dated a few of several of these, too.
Atheists believe in kindness so long as it is not directed towards people of faith. A quick visit to Proud Atheist will attest to that.
I’m sure that my elderly neighbors are Christian, but I’ve never thought to stop and ask their religious beliefs whenever I shovel their driveway in winter. I doubt that there is a single atheist out there that would after running into a burning building to save someone ask if they were religious. We don’t care. People in need are people in need.
Atheists believe in family unless you are of the family of God.
I’ll take this one. I’m not into tribalism, and Christianity – religions in general – are tribalistic. I’d much prefer to think of my tribe as all of humanity.
Atheists believe (or at least some do) that people of faith are fair game for ridicule and scorn.
No. Just the ones who try to convince me that faith isn’t blind, or the ones that try to subvert secular institutions and apply ‘Christian principles’ to everyone no matter their beliefs.
Atheists believe in a woman’s right to choose the fate of her unborn child.
Atheists believe unborn children have no rights.
There are atheists who are so-called pro-lifers. However, I find it ridiculous to attach rights to a blastocyst that is no different from sloughed skin cells. Personhood is not based on the potential to become a person. Modern science has given those same skin cells this same potential, but it is rather silly to attach rights to the dander in your home. What do we do with embryoes unused in in vitro fertilization if they have rights? Force the mother to carry them to term? I’m not going to pretend that there aren’t ethical issues here, but things are not anywhere near as simple as you suppose.
Atheists believe that creationism is a fairytale.
Absolutely. Not one shred of empirical evidence exists in support of it.
Atheists believe in the fairytale of evolution.
If by fairytale you mean a theory with massive amounts of empirical evidence in support from vastly disparate lines of evidence all pointing to descent through modification, then yes. I do.
Atheists believe that faith in God is silly.
Yes. I do not doubt that it helps those individuals that believe, but only in the same sense that a placebo has an effect. But even though I find faith in any god silly, just as you would find faith in Zeus silly, I have no problems with my fellow humans being silly so long as it does not harm someone else. But when religious parents substitute their faith for evidence-based medicine, praying while their diabetic child wastes away and dies a horrible death, that is way over the line. I hope they get the maximum penalty for their callousness.
Atheists believe our ancestors were monkeys.
No. Monkeys and humans share a common ancestor. Not the same thing. This is well-supported by both paleontological and molecular genetic evidence.
Atheists believe there is no evidence for God.
As GA pointed out, this is self-evident.
Atheists believe the non-evidence of a missing link. Atheists do have faith after all!
There is no such thing as a missing link (you got this wrong, GA). However, if you are talking about transitional fossils, no faith is needed. We have them. Oodles. See Donald Prothero’s “Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters” for an excellent look at what we have. Saying we don’t have them doesn’t make it so. Neither does saying we do. But this book shows them.
Atheists believe a person is hateful if they do not support the homosexual lifestyle. I would like to think this is not true of all atheists.
No. I believe a person is hateful if they refuse to attach the same rights to two people that love each other just as I love my wife and want to share their lives in a legal union just because they are of the same gender. No one is forcing anyone to be gay, for crying out loud. It does not diminish the meaning of marriage in any way whatsoever. I am also in favor of allowing religious institutions the right to not marry gay couples. Why is religion always about prohibitions? They NEVER work and only make things worse.
Atheists believe that it is natural for a person to be bisexual.
Sexuality is far more complicated than the archtypical pure heterosexual relationship. It is a spectrum of types and this is observed throughout social mammalian species. If you don’t want that to be so, too bad. Deal.
Atheists believe they will never bow their knee to the God of the universe. I believe they are wrong.
The first sentence I agree with. There is nothing to bow down to. The second – who cares? This is supposed to be about what atheists believe, not you. Besides, you have no basis on which to believe that except for a dicredited book which told you so. I’m hardly convinced of your position.
And more importantly, atheists still have time to reconsider the damage they are doing to others who might actually be interested in honestly examining the Christian faith and exploring the depth of God’s love!
As I said, I have no doubt that belief in a god benefits individuals, but this says nothing about its truth value. However, I am equally certain that religion is positively harmful to societies. By any metric you care to use, it is the most atheistic societies which are happier and healthier than the more religious ones. Indeed, the US, arguably the most religious nation in the developed world also leads or is no different from more secular countries in rates of nonviolent and non-lethal violent crime, homicide, adolescent suicide, teen pregnancy and teen STD transmission. I have no doubt that for the last two religion plays a major role through abstinence-only sex education. All abstinence-only programs have two things in common: their spectacular failure rate and removal of access to critical information on STD transmission and contraception to those who need it most.
But, I suppose your solution would be “We need more religion!”
Atheists should either learn what Christianity is or leave it alone.
As I stated earlier, most atheists are former Christians. Besides, the religious won’t leave us alone. Why do you think atheists are becoming more vocal? We’ve had enough! Leave the religious nonsense out of politics. Leave it out of the law. It has no place there! You want to live that way, live that way. But do not assume that just because you want to that I do as well. Sod off.
Disclaimer: This list is compiled from my own experience with atheists and does not necessarily represent the beliefs of all atheists on every point.
I agree, but there were some grave misconceptions in your list that NO atheist believes and were a result of your own prejudicial coloring of us.
Now to add to the list.
Atheists believe that all governmental institutions must be secular. This in no way infringes on the rights of Christians, or (more importantly) any religious or nonreligious group and levels the playing field for everyone. There is no other way for a government to act which does not involve discrimination or give an unfair advantage to any religion.
Atheists believe in freedom of religion (and other freedoms as well). I will stand up to protect your right to practice your religion even as most Christians will stand up to decry my nonbelief.
Atheists believe that evolution, with its evidence in support, is science and creation, lacking any semblence of support, is not. Therefor creation must not be part of any science class. If you want religious mythology taught, place it in a comparative religions class. I support such a class because then students would be exposed to other forms of belief and maybe some religious tolerance would result. Christians are generally in grave need of an injection of such tolerance.
Atheists believe in a democratic form of government. Self-evident and in no need of explanation.
Atheists believe that everyone is equal under the law regardless of ethnicity, gender or religious belief. Again self-evident.
Atheists believe in human rights. A recent poll shows that religious people are more likely to agree with the use of torture (and waterboarding IS torture…) in interogations. I think that is positively unnecessary to gain the information and sickening.
There are many other things that atheists believe, but I have to get to work some time…. I just hope that this clears some things up. I’m not trying to prosyletize, but rather I want you to have a better understanding of what we atheists are about. You had some clear misconceptions that no atheist believes.
June 30, 2009 at 3:58 pm |
The use of the argument, that there is no empirical evidence for creationism, has no weight as that is, by definition, provable by experience or experiment.
To those who believe, there is empirical evidence because of their personal experience. To those who don’t choose to experiment or experience it is an easier choice to, simply, not believe than to actively search.
Science, itself, is the greatest example of evolution. That is to say, what we thought we knew, yesterday, is disproven today. If I have to have faith, I will not place it in the fallability of so-called human intellect. May I say, those are your two choices.
June 30, 2009 at 4:01 pm |
What form of Democratic government,if you don’t mind elaborating?
June 30, 2009 at 5:10 pm |
No empirical evidence of creation? Have you looked at the world around you? Science can’t even begin to comprehend the vast complexity of the world in which we live. Have you considered the absurd odds against such complexity coming into existence by chance? Science classes should not teach theories as fact when science cannot scientifically prove them as fact. It doesn’t matter what you conclude, it matters what our children are being taught in school. Teaching factually that we evolved from a lower life form is dishonest, unfair and unproven.
“As per this discussion, though, most atheists have a far greater knowledge not only of the context but the history of the Bible.”
I would agree that some atheists have more knowledge than many Christians, but your statement that “most” atheists have greater knowledge is false.
June 30, 2009 at 11:05 am |
Dang. Could you find the missing HTML blockquote tag? My apologies.
June 30, 2009 at 1:17 pm |
I stripped you “/blockquote” tags because they kept moving to the end of the comment. It would be nice if WordPress had a preview option.
June 30, 2009 at 11:57 am |
Haha… that’s kinda funny..
We need to add to the list:
“Atheists THINK they know HTML, but sadly they do not.”
;)
June 30, 2009 at 7:06 pm |
Samantha,
I am not trying to be flippant about your past; I don’t know your past. I do know that it is impossible to deny God’s existence after experiencing knowledge of His existence. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Son of the living God, but Jesus did not tell him that; in fact, Jesus said that flesh and blood did not reveal that truth to him, but God revealed it. It took Peter a long time to hear God. He was arguably the last of the apostles to know the truth about who Jesus is. This knowledge comes from believing the Gospel message, but not all who believe will come to know that Jesus is the Son of the living God.
Are you familiar with the parable of the sower? The parable represents four types of people: those who reject the Gospel outright (many atheists), those who believe but soon fall away (some atheists), those who believe, but because of worldly cares never bear spiritual fruit (many bad teachers, etc.), and those who believe and bear spiritual fruit (true Christians). Those who fall into the last category hear God and come to know that Jesus is the Son of God. Others, like those of the third category, may say Jesus is the Son of God, but they do not know it because they do not follow after Him.
Too many professing Christians limit their hearing of God’s word to church attendance and misguided, though well intended, council from friends. How do you know whether or not a friend is telling you the truth? They may believe they are telling you the truth, but you cannot base what you believe on what others believe. If you know that the orthodox teachings of the Christian faith are contained in the Gospels, why not go there to find the answers?
In your post you criticize God’s judgment, but how do you comprehend His place. If there is a God we should hope that He is much greater than us, and holy and righteous too.
I don’t know who told you we are all God’s children; the apostles never taught that. It is through Christ that we become the children of God by adoption. And if we become children of God through Christ, we also become heirs of the promises made to Abraham. If you are not adopted into God’s family through Christ then you are not an heir of the promises.
God has only one begotten Son and that is Jesus. Imagine sending your only son to be beaten and nailed to a cross in order to save others. Do you think that is love? If you want to reject that love it’s up to you. It is not my place to do any more than proclaim Christ – and so I have.
June 30, 2009 at 8:06 pm |
Brian,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I’ve heard ot these conecpts before, yes. I don’t agree still… but, I am content to agree to disagree because neither of us are going to “believe” the other one here. You’re right. You don’t know me. You can’t tell me what I was or was not… or am or am not. You can think what you want.. and, I will agree to disagree. Fine.
One more simple thing I would like to point out is that personally, I wouldn’t want anyone or anyTHING to burn in hell forever. Not my own child – OR someone else’s child that I had not “adopted”. Hell, I wouldn’t even want the meanest, rottenest filthiest, murdering psychopath SOB in the WORLD to have to live in ETERNAL hellfire and pain and suffering. Why would any “just”, “holy” or “righteous” god want that?
You’re right, I can’t comprehend it. So, I don’t believe it. The fact that you CAN, and DO believe and accept this… is what scares me.
June 30, 2009 at 8:25 pm
If God wanted that, He wouldn’t have sent His Son.
June 30, 2009 at 7:53 pm |
As an atheist, my rejection of Christianity goes further then not believing. I don’t agree with the religion. It’s irresponsible (God killed his son so others can be forgiven for their sins), and it doesn’t teach learning it actually wants/asks you to not question but to simply have faith; believe, even without evidence, just believe. The dogma is also troubling.
I know, you’ll say that I don’t understand Christianity. You’re right. I also don’t understand the Son of Sam when he says his dog talks to him. I don’t understand Jihadists that want to die when they kill others because they’ll be given 72 palaces with 72 virgins. I don’t understand religion or faith in general but most importantly I don’t understand allowing oneself to be led and directed by faith. It seems void of all reason and simply a philosophical placebo that seems to work for some people.
None of that bothers me; I don’t care if people have one or many imaginary friends. What bothers me is when my life is dictated by their or your beliefs, i.e. laws based on biblical beliefs and nothing else. That is why some atheists are becoming more vocal and that is why the non-religious numbers are growing, because the religious right wouldn’t just keep to themselves. Ever hear atheists attack the Amish? I haven’t. Because they actually follow what they believe and they keep their beliefs to themselves without trying to force everyone else to follow their beliefs. Do atheists agree with the Amish, I doubt any do, but they still aren’t attacking them because they don’t have to defend themselves against the Amish either.
It’s people like Huckabee and Sarah Palin that are the poster children of what is wrong with the religious right. Huckabee wants to re-write the Constitution to support biblical law; do you expect non-religious people to sit back and not have a problem with his supporters.
June 30, 2009 at 8:24 pm |
Huckabee wants to defend marriage that’s all.
It sounds like you would like to push Christianity underground. Only the seculars can have a say in the shaping of our laws ah? Yeah, that really sounds democratic.
July 1, 2009 at 1:25 am
You aren’t paying attention, the man has literally said that the U.S. Constitution should be written to support biblical law.
Here’s a google search giving lots of options for what media you’d like to read that from.
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHMG_en-USUS291US303&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=huckabee+constitution+biblical
As is commonly done, you believe that if it doesn’t support Christian law then it must be supporting secular law. It’s black or white with you people instead of keeping it so that we can all practice what we choose to believe or not believe. You aren’t satisfied with that though, you want us all to follow your ideology or be forced to. You seem to confuse the difference between allowing others to do what they’d like with you doing what you’d like. You think no one should be allowed to do something if it is against your beliefs while no one, secularist or otherwise, is making any attempt to keep you from doing anything per your religion. Your insistence and stubbornness to see the difference between what others are allowed to do and what you are allowed to do is why Religious Nutjobs are disappearing from this country, slowly but surely, and the non-religious population is growing. Be spouting your own bigotry, you’re only helping out the other side.
Now, before you accuse me of being a bigot, why don’t you take a quick moment to look up the difference between bigoted and prejudice. I’m prejudiced against religious people but I tolerate them. I’m not a bigot because I don’t try and keep you from practicing your own beliefs nor keep you from having the same civil rights as the rest of America.
You and your ilk are no different from the religious maniacs in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, etc., etc. If you had it your way no one could be anything but Christian in America because, as many of you commonly put it, it’s a “Christian nation.” It isn’t and never has been.
July 1, 2009 at 8:12 pm |
I live in California. Are you telling me Prop 8 wasn’t religiously motivated? If you are, you’re lying to yourself and me.
July 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm |
It was religious organizations and people that got Prop 8 on the ballet, but it was the people that voted it into law. That is the way the democratic system works. The people have spoken. I used to live there (10 years ago) and frankly I am not surprised by the outcome.
July 1, 2009 at 8:17 pm |
Oh, and I’m not blaming your “beliefs” I’m blaming you for pushing your beliefs on the rest of us. It was brought up before why is that atheists are so vocal against Christians, and I’ve given you a reason why I am a vocal atheist. Thankfully, it seems true progress is growing. Take a look at the younger generation, they are more progressive and more liberal than anything this nation has ever seen. (now I’m singing and dancing because this nation is truly seeing the light!)
July 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm |
We will continue to proclaim the good news and there will be people who will believe it. You can dance yourself silly; you have the rest of your life to celebrate. I will celebrate later.
July 2, 2009 at 4:08 am |
Blaming you for pushing your beliefs on the rest of us!
Ah, yes, a complaint as old as time itself. If I had a dollar for every time I heard this one from my children…
Let’s face it, morality is imposed (or pushed onto) us all, by all. It is healthy for our humanity that this is the case. The alternative is chaos, as every person would simply do what feels best without regard for others.
The human condition is not one of selfless predisposition, as the ignorance of your religion claims. One only need take a long, honest, look into the mirror to see this.
July 1, 2009 at 9:09 am |
Do you feel better now that you got that off your chest?
Look, I don’t know what you are talking about. The things you are saying about us are simply not true. Maybe you are overdosing on far-left liberal propaganda. You are free to believe what ever you want. We live in a democracy and are free to advocate or oppose any and all legislation. If you feel strongly about an issue get behind it, but don’t blame us and our beliefs for laws you don’t like.